2021 Car Mod + In-Season Update!

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Cameron Rodger

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#1
Hello Everyone,

We are now 5 rounds into the 2021 season, therefore we've had time to evaluate the situation and hear feedback from the community.

One common topic is the car mod. Specifically, the car is known to be inherently unstable and sliding a lot on the rear tyres. This is of course, not intended. A formula car of this specification should be fairly planted.

I want to use this opportunity to explain the sequence of events that lead to this. As, it is not always obvious and we want to be more transparent of the situation at present.

The Car mod of 2020 was intended to be used again with some updates, mainly on the aero side. As that car was way too fast and allowed over pushing. Robin did some work on this over the summer of 2020 during the season to get a head start. When it came to the Autumn and the season had ended, we engaged in a partnership with The Race to make a IndyPRO season. This was a fantastic opportunity of for us to showcase our league and experiment with a new format. This lead us to try some new things thanks to the Inputs of many helpers, but mainly Alen and Dennis behind the scenes. What proceeded was (as said my many) one of the best series there has been on RF2 in recent times. Not perfect, but the general concept had so much potential and we fulfilled a lot of that. The racing and entertainment factors worked amazingly well.

Already in the background over 2020, we had talked internally about switching to the new 2022 spec regulations. However, this was never a real plan. It was not until the IndyPRO series that we realised a move away from the now-traditional format of F1 racing would be beneficial. We started to plan some ideas and make a mixture of the F1 format with the best parts of the IndyPRO series, both with the Rules and the Car Mod. This lead to a change in direction in November. From then, Matt started making the new model and Robin started work on a new physics base with the new philosophy. The idea being a car that was a few seconds slower than 2020, a bit more challenging and of course adding refuelling, Only 2 compounds etc. As well as removing all driver aids such as Boost and DRS. We wanted raw racing with no artificial aids, to really see who can be the best driver. Using their speed and some fuel strategies to help along their way. The intention was also to make the car raceable on all tracks with DRS being removed.

After this change in direction, Robin investigated the use of an 18 Inch tyre model to keep inline with the plan. A number of versions were made and the intention was to have a beta released around the time of our season reveal on New Years Day. However, things were not ready, so we delayed. As you know that delay went on for around 6 weeks. During that time there were again many test versions and even private test races, trying to get the car sorted. But, the new tyre model was simply not working.

We were around 4 weeks before the start of the season, with signs ups not open and no car to drive. So, it was time for some big decisions to be made. The season had already been delayed by 2 weeks from the first plan and we didn't really have much more room to delay. At the same time, 4 weeks is enough to get things sorted to be able to have a race. Therefore, we decided to revert the "old" tyre model. But this still needed quite a bit of work to adapt to the new concept of car. Robin did an amazing job to get things sorted and we did 1 or 2 internal test events around Imola. Which is an important point in the following story.

We had a decent event and decided it was time to do Public races, so we planned the 3 pre-season races. All 3 races were in the space of a week to allow time after the final one for teams to prepare for the first race. At the first test around Nürburgring, it was noted that the car was really sensitive on the rear. However, I was not overly concerned as that track is known to be "broken" in terms of RealRoad and is often a lot less grip than other tracks. We then continued at Zandvoort and Portugal were the car was still noted to be harder to drive. But at this point we were only 2 weeks before the season and we did not really have much time, so nothing too crazy was changed.

After this, it was all about testing for Imola. Which, went pretty decently. Of course the car still had its quirks, but the car was performing reasonably at Imola. Which was a bit confusing, especially as we could run a lot lower wings and still be competitive. It looks like Imola is different to other tracks, I have not investigated too deeply, but maybe with the track grip or smoothness. Or maybe just the type of corners, the car worked a lot better there. However, once we got to Portugal, it was realised the car was again sensitive on the rear. But that track is very bumpy and an old mesh, which can give some reasons. Then Round 3 was Nürburgring which, as previously mentioned, has some weird grip anyway. At no point was I fundamentally worried. Assuming the car would be better at some more "normal" tracks.

Already with the mood a little bit low with the mod, we had the unfortunate race of Zandvoort. Once again, I can only apologise to those drivers effected by the kerb issues. This was a very disappointing day for the league, as this event was far below our expectations of ourselves. It was also very bad timing to have a bad race, considering the circumstances with the mod feedback. This also hid the feedback about the tyres, but the car was also behaving weirdly here as well.

After Zandvoort, Robin took some time to investigate a possible fix to the car. However, we did not want to completely change the car mid-season. He created a number of different tyres options and these were tested in the Beta Team and in the TOA. After a vote within the Club Board, it has been successfully passed and we will now change to our "version 3" tyres. This is a change for the rear load sensitivity, effectively making the rear tyre grip drop off less with load . You will see it means the car will not randomly lose grip in "normal" driving conditions anymore.

However, this was agreed and finalised too late to be added realistically for the Silverstone race, so it was decided to delay this for Indianapolis. A new car update will be brought for all divisions in the next release. This is only a change to the Rear tyres and only a change to the load sensitivity. It was not the biggest change in the world, but some setup changes will be needed of course.

These things do take time, whilst we understand the concerns of drivers, we cannot simply snap our fingers and have the changes. It needs someone to make the updates, and to know what to change in the first place. But then also some testing and evaluation (and then formal processes inside the club). Along with the long explanation above, the sequence of events was never in a state to make drastic changes until after Zandvoort.

This does leave another issue, that was especially apparent at the last race in Silverstone. The overtaking. This is also something that is not easy. I do urge drivers to understand that simply asking for "dirty air to be lowered" is not very helpful, as its not so simple. Again, it needs to be adjusted in a realistic way, not random numbers thrown at the car. And also it needs to be tested in multiple racing conditions on multiple tracks. We will be now investigating that, and hope to add this to the car update for Indianapolis.

For those who made it to the end, I thank you for your time and understanding. We are here to make it better for everyone and will do our best to improve the car for the rest of the season!

As a side note, there will be a Special "Le Mans" aero package added to the car for that race only. As well as some more steering range options for the Azure GP as well.



Thank you for your time, and we look forward to a great second half of the season after the first FSR Triple Crown!
 
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#3
Change of rear tires midseason, seriously? It took me four races to understand how they work, and now it was all for nothing.

Thanks a lot.
 

Robin Pansar

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#4
Change of rear tires midseason, seriously? It took me four races to understand how they work, and now it was all for nothing.

Thanks a lot.
Once the new tyre version is out, we can explain what you can do setup wise to bring back the desired balance. It's a very small change and incredibly easy to compensate.
 
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#5
Once the new tyre version is out, we can explain what you can do setup wise to bring back the desired balance. It's a very small change and incredibly easy to compensate.
Really? Why should I bother to compensate something I had never any complains? Care to explain that?
How many laps I should take again to fix your crap?
 

Cas Rietveld

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#8
Really? Why should I bother to compensate something I had never any complains? Care to explain that?
How many laps I should take again to fix your crap?
Then you must be a professional Esport driver who can compensate or you’re too slow to push the tyres to their limit, personally I think it’s the latter.

Example:
 
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#9
Change of rear tires midseason, seriously? It took me four races to understand how they work, and now it was all for nothing.

Thanks a lot.
I appreciate it's frustrating Dmitry but have some respect for those that tirelessly volunteer to try and provide the best experience for everyone. It's certainly not an easy task developing a mod in rFactor 2 and you of all people have been here long enough to recognise that problems do arise when developing mods.
 
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#13
Specifically, the car is known to be inherently unstable and sliding a lot on the rear tyres. This is of course, not intended. A formula car of this specification should be fairly planted.
I wasn't even aware that this was an issue.
Where can I look to see the discussions?
And please Cas spare me your sarcasm and cynicism about my pace etc.
 

Cas Rietveld

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#15
Cas you really need to develop the ability to argue your point without insulting people.
I just find it odd that half the grid in FSR complains or knows about the issue, but yet here we have 2 ACA drivers who have never felt or known about the issue.

Genuine question: Did you really never spin through T1, Copse or maggots etc? Never noticed a sudden loss of rear grip?
 
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#16
I just find it odd that half the grid in FSR complains or knows about the issue, but yet here we have 2 ACA drivers who have never felt or known about the issue.

Genuine question: Did you really never spin through T1, Copse or maggots etc? Never noticed a sudden loss of rear grip?
Genuine question: Does that mandate changing the tires mid season and fucking peoples week's work?
 

Cas Rietveld

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#17
Genuine question: Does that mandate changing the tires mid season and fucking peoples week's work?
If it improves the drivability and racing, absolutely. From what I've heard the change isn't big.
Robin already said he will tell people what/how to adapt/change so you don't have to.

Also, you're literally one of few complaining about a change that will improve the car. Indianapolis isn't for another 3 weeks, this really should be plenty of time.

And otherwise, skip Indianapolis if you need more time to learn the tires.
Or you could just drive and get on with it.
 
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#18
"Really? Why should I bother to compensate something I had never any complains? Care to explain that?
How many laps I should take again to fix your crap? "

I would start off with acting less like an entitled kid. Guys have spent hours of testing basically for free so we can all enjoy better mod and you are shitting on them because you presumably don't like the change(you haven't even checked it on track!). You are showing the worst kind of attitude here. Its not like they are changing the mod day before the race. You have over 2 weeks to prepare for the race. It's pathetic that one can act in such a way, completely disrespecting other people's voluntary work.
 

Carlos Martín

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#19
Genuine question: Does that mandate changing the tires mid season and fucking peoples week's work?
You don't even know what's actually changed on the tire and yet complain. It's not the whole tire, I can assure you that. I can quote the tire change:

Changelog:
V3 Front - No change
Rear RubberPressureSensitivityPower from (-8.5,3e6,5e5,1) to (-8,3e6,5e5,1)

I tested this by myself 2 weeks ago. The behaviour you have at corners like Loop or Luffield will be the same. What is changed on the tire is a not inteded behaviour that was barely noticiable before. You could notice it in corners like Schumacher "S" or the long corners at Portugal (left handed and last corner). For the rest of the corners will remain the same. I can guarantee you that the balance will be sorted with +1 front wing. If you want very deep in data analysis, you might changes slightly the dampening on the car.

If you weren't able to spot an issue before, you will probably won't even feel a difference right now. I can bet my money on that.
 
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#20
You don't even know what's actually changed on the tire and yet complain. It's not the whole tire, I can assure you that. I can quote the tire change:
.
I don't care what your excuse is, your driver keep finding the wall and solution is push to change of the physics? Because this is what it looks like.
 

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